UK and the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. clueless1

    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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    No pete that's not what I said.

    When deciding day to day stuff, they don't need a unanimous decision.

    What I said was that they need a unanimous decision to allow a new country to join.
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      But they would get the unanimous decision one way or another, they always do. which is what I'm saying.

      But what is the big deal with Turkey??????
      If they want to join let them?

      They have let enough reliabilities in already.So what is the problem with Turkey?
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      All the Near East and North African countries have taken a financial beating with a lot of them trying to recover from Civil Wars or still being in one. The refugees are not only coming through Turkey but Libya, Egypt, Algeria etc who are in more of a bad state themselves than Turkey. Granted, Turkey is being overwhelmed and has taken in over 2 million refugees but that is only because a lot of the refugees were looking only for the nearest safe place and hoping to get back at some time in the future.....however doubtful that would be. I do have some real sympathy for Turks but I don't think it can be denied that their Politicians has turned it to their advantage and used it to try to gain more access to Europe and it's funding.:dunno::snorky:
       
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      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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        So what you seem to be saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you do not trust our government to act in the best interests of Britain when they have the framework of the eu to help them, but you do trust them to get it right when they're going it alone.
         
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        What I'm saying is that a government going it alone makes its own decisions and if we dont like it we can vote them out.
        A government in Europe will always be under pressure to conform.
        Not sure the framework of Europe is there to help, bully would be a better word.
         
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        • clueless1

          clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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          So we elect governments that can be bullied by our international neighbours? I'd say if that's the case, then we definitely need the eu for safety in numbers. If we elect natural bully victims and then ask them to go it alone, what will they do when America or China or Russia tries to bully us? It will be a case of yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.
           
        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          When did we ever have the framework of the EU to help us? It's a fact of political history that we have never been able to get approved any EU legislation put by us that was solely advantageous to the UK. It only a few months/weeks ago when Cameron went to the EU to thrash out concessions, more control of our borders, more influence in the EU. He came back and told the Country that he had succeeded and brought back a great deal. Even the most staunch Conservatives admit that he had come back with nothing. So if you're asking me do I trust a Country Leader that tells me he's done exactly the deal he told us he would do, and then would I trust him when I find out that is not true?............well, of course I don't!! How many times do you have to be lied to, directly or indirectly, by a Leader of Government before you smell a RAT??!!

          No, I wouldn't:dunno::nonofinger::heehee: At least not this present Government or it's Leader. But it won't be this present Government who will be trying to get it right when they're going it alone. It will be another Government, although doubtful that it will be a Labour Government. As I said, after the Referendum ,should the UK vote OUT, it's odds on that Cameron will go or, if not, become a figurehead with no influence on his MP's. That should also mean that there will be a new Leader, [who I haven't a clue]. with a Government with a new agenda of free trade with the EU and the rest of the world. I think we can survive, thrive and flourish without the EU trying to smother us, unlike others who seem to be frightened of opening the door of opportunity and would rather cuddle up to a "Mother" that has no intention of letting us decide our own future and wants us to become more dependent on them.:dunno:
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            No, think you have got it all wrong there mate.

            If you don't belong to the club you dont have to follow the crowd.

            You could argue that we were bullied into the second Iraq war, but we were in the EU then, they didn't save us from being bullied into taking part.:biggrin:

            As to China and Russia, that's where NATO comes in, totally independant of the EU as far as I know.
            Thank god.
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              I think your missing the point, clueless as it's not our international neighbours that are "bullying" but the EU which is not a Country but an un-elected organisation that was originally formed as a TRADE organisation but is now a POLITICAL organisation with a agenda to form a Federation. So we have a none country, un-elected, political organisation with a policy of ridding countries of their national identity, economic and national security powers telling sovereign countries how to run their own countries.
               
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              • Anthony Rogers

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                Sorry Pete but you've made two totally different statements in your posts.............

                " What I would not want is everyone living in Turkey having the right to travel around Europe and live in any country within the EU that they want, same with any country within the EU, not just Turkey ".


                Then in your other post you said.........

                " I don't care who joins just as long as everyone living in that country does not have a right to come and live here with no strings attached ".

                Now, reading these statements, the first one reads as a definite " no you can't come and live here ".

                But, the second one reads as " yes, you can come and live here but the are conditions ".

                So, which one is true ?
                 
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                • stephenprudence

                  stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

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                  Ive held my viewpoint off recently because I don't want to get into an argument with anyone, I have seen how this referendum has divided best friendships, families, etc.. it shouldn't have done, but it has.

                  My opinion is when I look at our government, I'm filled with dismay, but what fills me with more dismay is that no one in any political party can fill the void of an acceptable, electable leader. Effectively, if David Cameron steps down (I'm not fan of his), we're left with a huge political vacuum. Some people won't like my opinion here but given our lack of leadership quality in terms of MPs, I do think the EU need to support us for the next term to two terms, and I personally would accept EU governing us in a federal way, if only because the alternative is just not there.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    Looking for a disregard button:lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                    Please can we have one Admin.:)
                     
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                    • stephenprudence

                      stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

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                      Armandii with all due respect, I disagree with the part about ridding countries of their national identity... the EU as far as my experience takes me, has actually attempted to achieve the opposite, in that it has funded the development, and protected minority languages such as Welsh, Breton and Basque, it has also applied Geographical inidication order to food, such as Cheddar Cheese and Cornish Brie in order to protect them from mis-production and for identity reasons.
                       
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                      • Anthony Rogers

                        Anthony Rogers Guest

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                        Disregard = to pay no attention to, to ignore.

                        Is that you admitting that you can't answer me because you've contradicted yourself :)
                         
                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        Ziggy's working on it in the GC Workshop, Pete, ...........but we'll need EU legislation to get the Federalisation authority to make the VETO button. That is a problem as it was issued by the EU in the first place and has never worked before, so we'll have to do some free trade thinking and let Ziggy go it alone and work it out.:dunno::heehee:
                         
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                          Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2016

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