UK and the EU

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. jennywren

    jennywren Gardener

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    @clueless1 just to add the Council of Europe was founded by the UK in 1949! How many people in the UK are even aware of this...oh la la
     
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      Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      No Anthony, its me saying, I aint got a clue, what you are saying.:biggrin:
      I cant see any contradiction, I think we just speak different languages.;)
       
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      There's no significance in this as all the European countries are members of the Council of Europe (except Belarus). Even Russia and Turkey are members of the Council of Europe. :scratch:

      I'm not really sure how you come to that conclusion. :scratch: You've read into the two separate facts an inference that isn't really there :noidea:. I think you may be conflating the two organisations.

      The court of Human Rights only has the say over what we do because we, the UK, passed a law in 1998 called the Human Rights Act. We are able to rescind this act which would take away the overriding authority from the C of H R.

      The government have said that they want to replace the Human Rights Act 1998 with a British Bill of Rights (and Responsibilities) but hasn't done anything about it.

      The EU has control over a lot of laws that are imposed on this country but they have nothing to do with Human Rights. So the EU can't be blamed for that :heehee:

      That's simply the East/West divide. :lunapic 130165696578242 5:
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        Well, I think that it's generally accepted that we haven't had, nor have at present, any real influence in the EU. That was proved emphatically when our dearly beloved Prime Minister went over to Brussels to "demand", pressurise, negotiate, plead for more influence, changes in EU policy as asked for by most of the UK population. The result of that was a large amount of sarcastic, dismissive, contemptuous, and negative comments from various Ministers of France, Germany and the EU itself. So our Prime Minister comes back with nothing and unashamedly tries to tell the country that he has got a good deal!!

        Agreed.......to a certain point. What you seem to be overlooking is that all the interwining and alliances will not mean a jot should the overall stated agenda of the EU to become one Federal state succeed. All power would be concentrated into a Political Point that has no real connection with any of it's 28 members bar, possibly, two.
        So eventually, if Federalisation should occur, there will come a time when the EU with it's higher agenda will regard the Unions etc as a threat to it's ability to control working people by passing legislation to further control their ordinary domestic lives. So, just like the UK, the small voices,[against that of the Monolithic EU, of the Unions will be just as ineffective. The EU organisation became a different "Animal" when it changed from it's original purpose of a Trading Organisation to a Political one. It now wants to convince it's members that without it they will not survive and that by becoming one vast empirical Federation it can become all powerful, which it probably can, at the cost of the individual freedom and total subservience to the Federal State.
        Just as an aside, can you imagine what would happen say if that Bogey Man, Russia, was to invade, for some insane reason, Europe?? Do you think history would repeat itself and each country would initially defend itself or would they sit there waiting the EU Bureaucrats to mobilise a EU army made up of East European, Mediterranean, and West European countries who have shown very little unity in areas where they are under pressure and asked to adhere to EU agreements such as the Schengen agreement? The vaster and more complex a Political machine/organisation is the less flexible and slower it becomes and the EU is, and would be, just that.:coffee:
         
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        • Ariadae

          Ariadae Super Gardener

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          [​IMG]

          Saw this on Facebook, interesting.
           
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          • "M"

            "M" Total Gardener

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            Well, that settles it then: if Delia Smith thinks we should stay ... and Bryan Adams thinks we should leave ... the choice is obvious :doh:
             
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            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              Yes and it's very dubious.

              Putin has been notably silent on the subject. Yet his name is on there. Im pretty sure ISIS haven't said anything either. The inclusion of such names therefore casts doubt on the accuracy of the whole piece.
               
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              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                Oh Dear!!! Jeremy Clarkson is in the Remain crowd :yikes:

                Now what do I do?

                upload_2016-6-20_14-5-22.jpeg
                 
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                • Beckie76

                  Beckie76 Total Gardener

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                  I can't believe I'm posting on this thread again I keep telling myself to keep off it but here I go again! I still have no idea which way to vote! I don't think I have enough information or knowledge to vote either way, yes I've read up on it & yes I've spoken to lots of people about it & just as I think Ive come to a decision I read something else & think that's not right, I can't vote that way!.... I guess there's a lot of people feeling the same way as I do! Anyway I'm really going to try not to post on this thread anymore...yeah right! :heehee:
                   
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                  • clanless

                    clanless Total Gardener

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                    It is confusing - the two bodies are so similarly named.

                    I found out yesterday that in addition to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership agreement - there's another separate agreement relating to services.

                    Both of which are being negotiated on our behalf (as member of the EU) and behind closed doors.

                    I can't be doing with this - everything needs to be out in the open and subject to public scrutiny.

                    Yet another reason why I am voting out.
                     
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                    • clueless1

                      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                    • Scrungee

                      Scrungee Well known for it

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                      If only I could simply vote for Remain Romaine
                       
                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      :doh::love30::heehee::loll::lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                       
                    • Sheal

                      Sheal Total Gardener

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                      I've been sitting on the fence here on my adopted island taking note of everything that has been said on this thread - for and against. I feel for those of you who really don't know which way to vote, it will be a hard decision but please make that choice and place your vote, don't abstain. What ever the outcome it will affect all of us, nation wide. I have no choice, the island isn't part of the EU so I won't be able to vote even though the outcome will affect myself and the people here.
                       
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