Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. clanless

    clanless Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,201
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure.
    Location:
    North Wales
    Ratings:
    +7,618
    Amnesty report listed incidents in which it said Ukrainian forces appeared to have put civilians in harm's way by establishing bases in residential areas.

    What a silly thing to say - Amnesty International. Do they think that the Russians are only shelling residential areas because the Ukrainian Military are there? Do they think that the Russian military have any morals - or follow any codes of conduct when it comes to war?

    Do you want the Ukrainian soldiers to fight in open country side - away from the shelter of buildings?

    Numpties.
     
  2. clanless

    clanless Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,201
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure.
    Location:
    North Wales
    Ratings:
    +7,618
    Send much more - Boris/Rishi/Liz..

    The UK is increasing its military support for Ukraine, doubling the number of long range multiple rocket launchers it has provided from three to six.

    The total package of military support given to Ukraine has reached £2.3bn ($2.8bn) so far.
     
  3. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    47,722
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Mid Kent
    Ratings:
    +84,378
    Yeah, loads of money.
    While over here prices are rising like crazy and they say there's not much they can do.

    I noticed 25% of those that took in Ukrainian families want to opt out next month when the minimum 6 months is up.
    Support will wane the longer this goes on, a short sharp war it not.

    Let's face it we got involved when it had already been going on for more than 10years.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Clueless 1 v2

      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Jun 26, 2022
      Messages:
      1,789
      Gender:
      Male
      Ratings:
      +2,274
      I'm losing some respect for Zelensky. I think he's getting over excited about all the weapons everyone is sending. He's said that the war isn't over until Russians have been removed from Crimea. I get that it was Ukrainian until the Russians stole it in 2014 but taking it back by force was not, I believe, the intention when other countries started to help. And the US have had to build into the terms of their support that Ukraine won't use US weapons against targets inside Russia.

      Russia has thrown Ukraine a bone recently, avoiding a massive escalation by claiming it was their accident that caused an airbase in Crimea to destroyed, despite satellite images clearly showing that Russian aircraft had been targeted, and British intelligence saying it looks like a carefully targeted attack with precision weapons.

      I can fully understand the Ukrainians wanting to repel an invasion, and I can understand that emotions will be running high, but war can't be fought on emotion. It has to be calculated and methodical and always with the goal of finding a peaceful exit. Attacking Crimea and having to be told not to fire into Russia doesn't feel like a methodical defence with a peaceful exit strategy. I'm starting to believe that Ukraine wants it to escalate, so that NATO attacks Russia.

      Something a lot of people have forgotten, and the media is largely sweeping under the carpet, is that a few years ago, the elected leader of Ukraine was forced to flee for his life, after he was violently overthrown. The world stood back because the elected leader was happy to work with both Russia and the EU. Having forced him out, not through democracy but through violence, he was replaced with a more EU leaning leader. I'm not suggesting that all Ukrainians want a fight, I'm saying that some do, and it seems that as long as they want to fight Russia well support them and portray them as saints.

      As I've said before, the only sensible way out of this is through diplomacy. Defence of course while someone is invading their land, but isolating Russia and continuing to support a leader that clearly wants more than just the immediate defence of their current territory is just a recipe for disaster.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

        Joined:
        Jan 9, 2005
        Messages:
        47,722
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Retired
        Location:
        Mid Kent
        Ratings:
        +84,378
        Tbh right from the start Ukraine has tried to drag NATO into the war imo

        Understandable, in a way, but I don't think that they actually considered what that would mean in terms of where Ukraine would fit in.
        At the moment NATO countries are propping up Ukraine, if war broke out widely along the NATO line I'm sure Ukraine would be dumped as expendable.
         
      • clanless

        clanless Total Gardener

        Joined:
        Jan 20, 2013
        Messages:
        3,201
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Gentleman of leisure.
        Location:
        North Wales
        Ratings:
        +7,618
        I see that Putin is now burning off gas that he cannot sell and that for the first time the UK didn't buy any energy at all from Russia.

        Russia's energy market has hit rock bottom and it's not going to get any better.
         
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

          Joined:
          Jun 26, 2022
          Messages:
          1,789
          Gender:
          Male
          Ratings:
          +2,274
          I don't think it's quite the case that he can't sell the gas. Germany would still buy it in a heartbeat if they could, but Russia is saying that sanctions have prevented maintenance on the Nordstream 1 gas line into Germany. Putin is goading Germany by burning off the gas that Germany wanted to buy.

          I largely agree though, Russia is probably starting to feel the pinch a bit now. I just hope the west is not being softened up ready to accept a reduction in support for Ukraine. The environmentalists are already saying, quite rightly, that Russia flaring off their gas is going to have an adverse climate impact. But that in itself is a good thing, if it gets people asking the question, if it's bad when Russia does it, why wasn't it ever bad when every other developed country does it?
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

            Joined:
            Jan 9, 2005
            Messages:
            47,722
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Retired
            Location:
            Mid Kent
            Ratings:
            +84,378
            Putin is laughing at us.

            We have people who are going to probably die this winter due to our energy companies jumping on the bandwagon.
            If gas was being rationed it would make some kind of sense but they seem to have plenty to sell.
            Electricity prices linked to gas prices regardless of how many windmills we build.
            A 6% rise in output from the north sea but only because its worth doing now at stupid prices.

            Add to that the price rises in supermarkets and someone is making billions out of Putin's war.

            Never seen it in my lifetime, today in Morrisons, racks and racks of bagged up stuff all heading for the food banks .

            Someone should be ashamed, but let's just blame Putin, so much easier.
             
            • Like Like x 3
            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

              Joined:
              Jan 20, 2013
              Messages:
              3,201
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Gentleman of leisure.
              Location:
              North Wales
              Ratings:
              +7,618
              Our energy supplier is all renewable - they tell me that renewable is cheaper to generate than fossil - yet renewable is all charged at the price of a unit of gas. This is bonkers IMHO. Because of Putin - people are now looking more seriously at alternatives to fossil. Putin can pipe his gas to where the sun don't shine - and I mean that in an environmentally responsible way....:biggrin:.

              The US have just bunged an extra couple of billion worth of aid to Ukraine - wait until October when the lend lease kit starts to arrive. This will be the turning point in the war.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                Joined:
                Jan 9, 2005
                Messages:
                47,722
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Retired
                Location:
                Mid Kent
                Ratings:
                +84,378
                Can you imagine what would happen if they didn't link the price of electricity to gas.

                First we would all go over to using electric, then the national grid wouldn't be able to cope so we would be sitting in the dark until they fired up more gas powered power stations ,its a vicious circle of short sighted government after government for the last 40years.
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • gks

                  gks Total Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Feb 28, 2021
                  Messages:
                  1,508
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Occupation:
                  Production Manager
                  Location:
                  Cumbria
                  Ratings:
                  +4,432
                  Prime example is Norway, supposed to be 100% or nearly 100% renewable, yet the North of the country is virtually paying nothing for electricity due to the abundance, yet while in the south the electricity is supposed to be the most expensive in Europe. Lack of water in the reservoirs in the south, but yet no cables from the North to the South, madness.

                  Nuclear power and hydropower have been hampered by the lack of water, not only in Europe but also the states and China has been in the grip of a heatwave also. They reckon world wide, nuclear power and hydropower is down by 25% if not more. But lets all blame Putin, the problems lie a lot closer to home.
                   
                  • Like Like x 2
                  • Agree Agree x 1
                  • Clueless 1 v2

                    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Jun 26, 2022
                    Messages:
                    1,789
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Ratings:
                    +2,274
                    I'm afraid that's just a lie, I don't mean you're lying, I mean you've been lied to. I'm in the same boat.

                    All of the electricity from every type of generator goes into the same grid. When eon and the likes promise it's all renewable, I think they mean they only buy contracts from renewable suppliers, but as it all goes on the same grid, those suppliers might fulfill the contract through multiple means.

                    There's an app that shows where all your power is coming from at the moment. Last time I looked, over 70% of ours was just categorised as 'imported'.
                     
                    • Agree Agree x 1
                    • john558

                      john558 Total Gardener

                      Joined:
                      Feb 14, 2015
                      Messages:
                      2,359
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Retired
                      Location:
                      Ramsgate, Kent
                      Ratings:
                      +8,190
                      I've just had an email from British Gas stating that my monthly Direct Debit for Electric will go up from £56.48 to £88.43.
                      I wonder if my State Pension will go up by £7.99 to cover the increase:noidea:
                       
                      • Like Like x 2
                      • Funny Funny x 1
                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                        Joined:
                        Jan 9, 2005
                        Messages:
                        47,722
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Retired
                        Location:
                        Mid Kent
                        Ratings:
                        +84,378
                        John, you need to do more overtime.:biggrin:
                        It was always the way out in the high inflation of the 70s.
                        Somewhere along the line we got old.:biggrin:
                         
                        • Agree Agree x 2
                        • john558

                          john558 Total Gardener

                          Joined:
                          Feb 14, 2015
                          Messages:
                          2,359
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Occupation:
                          Retired
                          Location:
                          Ramsgate, Kent
                          Ratings:
                          +8,190
                          I used to get lots of overtime during my working life.
                          I feel sorry for the members of the House of Lords:whistle:

                          Members of the House of Lords are not salaried. They can opt to receive a £323 per day attendance allowance, plus travel expenses and subsidised restaurant facilities. Peers may also choose to receive a reduced attendance allowance of £162 per day instead.
                           
                          • Funny Funny x 1
                          Loading...
                          Similar Threads - Ukraine
                          1. redstar
                            Replies:
                            6
                            Views:
                            1,028

                          Share This Page

                          1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                            By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                            Dismiss Notice