Using weed killer after Mo Bactor?

My lawn is probably 70% moss and I have tried everything to get rid of it but with no success. I suspect the fact that the lawn is mostly shaded and constantly moist probably means I am fighting a losing battle.

My latest weapon is Mo Bactor and having just applied that today I thought I would tackle the weeds next (thistle, dandelion, daisies etc. etc.).

I was going to apply Evergreen 4 in 1 (because I happen to have an unopened bag) but I wonder if it will kill the "good" bacteria from the Mo Bactor?

 

Never heard of "Mo Bactor" before ... but had a quick look , its a natural fertiliser and also kills and then it friendly bacteria eats the moss so you dont have to scarify to get the dead moss out ... the Evergreen 4 in 1 is not a natural product and its full of chemicals that kills moss and broad leaved weeds then feeds as well so a good arounder to use , not that I am a expert on lawns but to use the two brands at the same time doesnt sound good or a good use of £ ... if possible can you spot treat the weeds in the lawn rather than use a blanket cover as such ... I would also sugest maybe look for a lawn seed that is more shade tollerant to plant out at a later date ... to be sure why dont you email the Mo bactor and ask

Spruce

 

Hmmm! Don’t think the two products are compatible tim091
A bit of overkill too

 

Thanks guys. No, I don't think they are compatible, but I am ready for overkill!

Last autumn I used evergreen autumn moss killer - nothing happened. About six weeks ago I liberally dosed the lawn with Iron Sulphate; this seemed to make the moss grow thick and lush and green!

Assuming that the Mo Bacter sorts the moss (I am not optimistic) then I have to kill the weeds. Maybe spot killing them is the way to go then, but I have about 200 sq metres so I was hoping for an easy solution!

 

My front lawn is approx 150 sq metres. I use only a spot weed killer on it occasionally; all it needs. I find raising the mowing cut and mowing twice a week produces great grass and very few weeds

 

Thanks Verdun. My problem is that I have very little actual grass in my lawn!

I will go the spotting route I think and see if that, with the moss treatment gets me more actual grass growing.

 

Bit cold for MO at the moment. This works best when it’s warm and damp and needs to be applied on the heavy side. it’s a slow release fertiliser too.
Pointless putting iron on after you have applied MO as it will simply kill a percentage of the moss off and turn it black.
Any type of herbicide works best when the targeted plant is in full growth. Temps are still cold and it needs to warm up so you get the results you are after. You also need to apply a fertiliser evenly and at the correct rate if it contains a herbicide.
Your other problem is watching how much N you are applying as that will just create a soft and poor plant.
If you are applying iron and the moss is not turning black it’s a case of mixture error or the product. Iron will turn moss black as you watch, it’s very quick acting.
The way MO is advertised is that you don’t need to scarify to remove the moss however you may well need to scarify depending on the lawn.

 

Thanks Liz. I will hold off the weed killing.

I mixed the iron sulphate at 5g per litre as per instructions (35g in my 7 litre watering can) and roughly marked out 7 metre strips to apply each watering can load to. No evidence of any moss killing.

When I scarified last autumn after a different moss treatment it mostly just ripped out clods of wet grass and mud! Clearly my lawn is very soggy.

 

Sound like a defective product, even a small amount of iron will hit moss.
Did you by any chance mix it with cold water? Warm to hot water will help break down the mix if using crystals.
Any chance of a photo of the moss you are trying to clear?

Depending on the machine you can rip up the turf rather than removing the thatch and moss and if the grass is weak then the root system can be shallow to.
With a blade machine you will never remove all the moss and depending on if it’s free swinging or set blades this dictates the depth of scarifying. If it’s tine blades these need to be set so it just rubs the soil but they can be harsh at times.

You also need to scarify when the ground is damp and not water logged or bone dry. If it’s dry it will put a strain on most domestic machines and does not allow a clean cut in and if it is water logged it will just rip the turf up and make a mess.

If you could post a picture, maybe a few this would be helpful.

 

Thanks Liz. When I said scarify I meant raking with a lawn rake!

Pictures show the moss and some of the bare areas resulting from the raking!

 

Thanks, the iron should have hit that when applied.
It’s a shame it’s so cold, this will hinder the MO you applied.
Normally it’s best to discover why moss is there and that can be anything from soil and ph levels to shade, dampness and so on.
I can see the grass is a bit weak, let’s see if the MO works and raise the cut well above normal to promote grass growth and root development.
If the MO fails to work then you can use a typical weed and feed with iron to promote growth. These tend to have a high nitrogen reading which will increase growth and help fill in but the cut needs to be on the high side.
Part of the issue and you can test this is to lift a bit of turf and look at the grass roots. Roots play a big roll so it’s important to promote good deep roots hence a higher cut.

 

Thanks for all the advice - really useful.

I am fairly sure the problem is the overhanging trees from the forest that keep 70% of the lawn in shade all day. That and the poor soil (clay and flint) means that it is pretty waterlogged most of the time. When I raked it was pulling grass out roots and all.

Their are also numerous large tree roots just below the surface that don't help.

Best solution would probably be to rip it all up, level it and re-turf. But the shade problem remains!

 

I would definitely keep the grass on the long side. The top growth dictates the root growth and if the top is short the root base will be shallow. When you cut the grass root growth is stunted for a short period so your best bet is to keep it long and cut regularly so not to introduce stress which in turn can promote turf disease.
I had a customer whose front lawn right in the middle had a huge oak tree and the only way to keep the grass looking good what’s the colour on the high side. Feeding was a nightmare as the canopy prevented rainfall and even though I asked the customer to water it this was never done .
The end result even though the customer wanted nice grass was I had to apply the feed at a much reduced rate as he simply would not water the feeding thus cutting down on scorching.
To be honest even if you use grass types that are better in shade if you have root systems from overhanging trees and have overhanging branches and the lawn is shady your grass will suffer.
The only way to overcome this to a degree where you have a fairly decent lawn is to keep the cut high and have a program of fertilisation throughout the seasons.
Let’s say you are successful in removing this year is moss, what you need to do is to feed in the summer and select a feed that has a low percentage of iron which will strengthen the turf and prevent moss growth. In the autumn and through the winter you can still apply and autumn feed which again should have a low percentage of iron which will help to deter moss.
The downside of having a seasonal feed depending on the grass type is that you will have a buildup of thatch which needs to be looked at in the autumn to see if it requires scarification.
This is the downside to regular feeding of lawns, the more rigourous the feed the more the thatch buildup. If you can promote deeper root growth then when you scarify with very good machine you will find a cleaner process and will limit the amount of turf or the plant that is ripped out due to shallow roots.
There is nothing stopping you over several seasons applying a top dressing that slowly builds up over time that will help maintain the turf to a better order.
You probably noticed last year as we have that hot spell that if you have roots from trees entering into your lawn that your surface became very dry and hard and this grass suffered. The only way to overcome this is to water the grass.
There are other alternatives for example I’ve mentioned straight fertiliser use which lasts for around six weeks whereas you could use a slow release fertiliser and simply apply a liquid iron when required. Slow release fertilisers tend to be more expensive but at the same time they can last up to 3 months and do not create flush growth which is associated with straight fertilisers with high nitrogen. This type of fertiliser would be mainly for the summer whereas you would use a straight fertiliser for autumn feed.
If you don’t own a spreader and wish to take the above routes I would definitely recommend you purchase one as this will help to achieve the correct dosage and to evenly spread the fertiliser over your grass. With any herbicide that is mixed with a feed i.e. weed and feed you need to apply at max recommended strength. If you use a feed only you can adjust the amount of NPK level with calculations but any feed that has a herbicide you need to keep it at the recommended dosage.

Yes you could re-turf it, rip it all up, replace the soil but then again I’ll be honest if you have overhanging trees and tree roots the problem will reappear at some stage which is why in your case the only way to maintain the lawn is through correct methods of maintenance.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to give all that information. Fantastically useful!