We have similar problems here @pete listed building are bought, sit there for years and degrade, normally suffer a mysterious fire, before they decide it's to expensive to rebuild anyway. There was an old funiture shop, former railway station, that followed the same pattern. They wanted planning permission to knock down the burnt out she'll and rebuild what they wanted in the first place but it was denied unless they rebuilt it like it was before. It is crazy how much restoration work costs. The Norwich castle restoration was slated at 18 million but that rose to 27.5 million and took many years longer than planned. There is a theatre in Kings Lynn where Shakespeare may have once played and the restoration of that is 30 million at least and it's a modest building. Flooring exposed at King's Lynn theatre with Shakespeare connection
You'd think that would be the case, and indeed very sensible - however, certainly in the UK, the combination of our planning laws/rules, listed building rules and conservation area rules make it prohibitively expensive or impossible for developers to bring properties back into use or re-use the land. Exhibit A: That is an old factory in my hometown - been out of use for well over a decade now and is absolutely falling apart... a complete eyesore. The size of the site would easily accommodate around 70-100 houses (much more if they were maisonettes or flats no more than 3 stories), but that building is listed. Because it is listed, the last owner could do nothing with it, so it sits and rots and will continue to do so until it has to be bulldozed. Nearby there is Carnsalloch - it was a nursing home at one time, lovely countryside views. Again, listed and when applications were made to change it into housing/flats, it was refused. Local neds got in on a couple of occasions and set it on fire - the above is the result. The cost to rebuild would run into the millions, and perversely they still wouldn't be allowed to change it's use, it would have to be built back as it was where there is no use for it. So it rots. Next up is this one: That is called Nithsdale Mills - this is the other side: That has been only partly used by industrial lets since I was a kid, fifty years ago and most of the site has been derelict since then. The size of that site would again be an easy 60 homes, more if flats (I'd wager 120+) Nobody wants to touch it because it has listed status, so the cost of refurbishing would be many millions and they'd almost certainly be stopped from making any sensible changes anyways... so it sits and rots. Corbelly Hill Convent: A substantial site, ex-convent, sits atop a hill with beautiful views across the town and to the hills around. Onerous rules around refurbishing it ruled out it being changed to flats and there isn't sufficient trade to support a hotel around there, so it sat until neds broke in and set fire to it.. now it rots. Again, tell me you wouldn't get 60 - 100 good size houses there... if flats, easily 200 or more and the views would be spectacular. Aaand another... ex-hospital, some of which has beautiful architecture. Sold off by the NHS mega-cheap and now being sat on by a "developer".. only, they can't do anything with it because most of it is listed and the bits that aren't the council still wouldn't let them do what they want with. The site is vast - again, easily 60-100 houses in there, all with reasonable size gardens. But nothing will happen for decades as it is listed, burnt out (twice) and will now sit and rot. One that could have some potential, on a smaller scale and indeed, currently for sale too: But, it will fall under conservation/listed rules so there would be years of fighting to get that wee cottage usable again (bearing in mind they battle on things such as the glazing you can use, the roofing materials etc etc), let alone extended to make it a decent size. The real fly in the ointment for anyone taking that on as a home is what comes with it: That little cottage is right at the pointy bit at the top of that triangle - the property that can be seen in the middle is this: Again, with enough money, it could be turned into something - - that would make a 10 bedroom house or more ideally, five two bedroom flats. But, again, it is listed. Even is both of these last two weren't listed, you'd be into £100-£150k in renovation costs on the wee cottage on it's own, to make them wind and water proof, rewire them, solve the damp issues that more often than not come with these properties. Goodness knows how much and how long it would take to landscape the rest as a garden and you'd still be stuck with that huge, semi-derillict building in the middle. Worse still, even when renovated, the cottage would have a value of £200k... maybe £240k at an absolute push, and thus it simply does not make financial sense, especially when something like this less than a mile away is around £180k ALL of those mentioned here are within a 3 mile radius of the town centre - and they are just the ones I know of (I've not lived there for 25 years). We've made it so, so hard for anyone to take on an older property and make it into what they need and want... and yet we wonder why folks aren't doing it.
Not just old property that is not used, not far away from me there is some new flats that have been empty for abot 7-8 years, i must say that i wouldn't want to live there myself
But the data doesn't need to be saved for eternity. Every spam email ever sent (and I have just erased 10 solar panel ones) still exists. That is just beyond ridiculous. We need laws about data collection and retention, and it should be the users who generate the content who get to decide what stays and what disappears permanently. Retention should be the exception, not the norm.
A story from many decades ago. A developer purchased a listed building in Glasgow and applied for permission to demolish it and put a new building in its place. The council refused and not long after the building sadly and very accidentally burnt to the ground. The developer put in a new application as there was nothing of the listed building to get in the way, or so he thought. The very helpful council informed the developer that they had a full set of plans for the old building and no permission would be granted unless the entire frontage was rebuilt to the original spec.
Hot cross bun provision has gone mad! The supermarkets are packed with them in all manner of baffling flavours, including sticky toffee, Belgian chocolate, mixed berries, apple, lemon, cherry and chocolate, salted caramel, carrot cake, to name but a few. Why would you want a carrot cake flavoured hot cross bun? Surely you would have a piece of carrot cake? And some of them have pink crosses!
There is another aspect to the current housing crisis in that life styles have changed a great deal. At one time, a couple would stay together in 1 house and raise their children if that is what they chose to do. More often now a couple ( with or without children ) may split up and then each adult requires separate accommodation. I'm not suggesting that a couple should remain lving together in the same house if they find it impossible to do so but it does add to the housing needs. It's not something which can be changed but it could at least be acknowledged by those concerned as being a part of the problem. As for Listed Buildings and those in a Conservation Area, some do seem to be prone to "accidental" fires. I've seen it happen here twice within a few square klms.
I'm pleased that I don't like hot cross buns but as it is a type of moan thread I'm cross that I have nothing to be cross about the hot cross buns.
Agree, they then go on to produce another family which then needs another house, often leaving the first mother on her own and claiming benefits for the first lot the bloke fathered.
Two large buildings not far from here were languishing for years while various planning applications were considered and refused. Both eventually caught fire. One is now a block of flats. The other is awaiting permission to be rebuilt as retirement flats with an associated nursing home. The latter was objected to by the local GP practice, who stated that they were already understaffed and oversubscribed, and were struggling to recruit enough GPs and district nurses to meet the current demand, let alone the extra proposed beds.
That is sort of fair enough - retaining a frontage can be understood, particularly to keep things in keeping with an area. But, where is the point in making things so utterly obtuse that folks simply can't or won't do anything with the property? Take that factory in my first post - even if the frontage were the only stipulation to be retained, what benefit is there to doing so? Nil. Nada. Zip. That one has been going on so long that the owner abandoned it and it has now been turned over to the Crown, with the Kings and Lord's Remembrancer now having taken responsibility for it - that means, the council could buy it, but like almost all councils are pot-less for a starter for ten, and besides who would they argue with over what is or is not allowed to be done with the site? If it is abundantly clear that a site is simply going to rot until it falls down thirty of forty years later, then why are we not knocking the damn things down and at least using the land?
I'm not sure who decides what buildings are listed but I definitely think they need a good dose of reality.
@shiney Possum thinks she doesn't like dried fruit so she gets hot cross buns made with choc chips. OH and I have the proper fruity ones but I don't bother making the cross any more as it's just a flour and water paste and pointless. Can't buy them here of course so all home made and I even make crumpets now, once or twice a year. Been busy converting the natives to scones, cream and jam and proper carrot cakes too.
I have just read that the EU, Canada and a 12 nation Indo-Pacific block have started talks on closer trade ties in order to see off Trumpy tariffs and tantrums. Carney constructs a mega anti-Trump trade alliance – POLITICO @CanadianLori I know you're not convinced but your Mark Carney is turning out to be a proper treasure with his foresight and strategies. More power to their collective elbows to establish the "middle" powers as the biggest trading block in the world and see off the big boy bullies.
