Whaaattt?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Tidemark, Aug 17, 2024.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    The tariffs are not likely to remain - except perhaps those with the EU and China... they are a tool to force negotiations for new trade deals. Will those trade deals still contain some form of tariff? Yes, but at a much lower percentage or perhaps only on specified groups.

    You've only got to look at what is happening here to see that it is not about money coming in from tariffs, it is about stopping China flooding the market with cheap tat, killing what remains of any production, wrapping up in even deeper debt or even getting to the point where they are persuading the introduction of certain ways of behaving (eg massive camera surveillance, cashless society, social credit scoring etc)... and all the while, using backdoors in their products to spy.

    We've reached the point where we view China through benevolent eyes, not least as so many of our products rely on them for cheap production... this is a grave mistake.
     
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    • ViewAhead

      ViewAhead Total Gardener

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      The way to stop cheap tat coming from China is for people to stop buying cheap tat. :) It would help climate change too, so double benefits.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        The problem there, of course, is that when your own government has strangled you financially and also has strangled manufacturing over decades to the point that what you want/need to buy is no longer made in this country, folks will think nothing of buying said tat. In fairness, China's manufacturing processes have evolved significantly, so nowadays a lot of the stuff isn't actually tat... it is as good as you can get anywhere, but the fact remains that it often doesn't come without other costs.

        Even our own manufacturers have been utterly stupid in their dealings with China - for example, take the new car they are advertising, the 'Jaecoo'... if you look, you will see some details that look the same as Range Rover - - then, if you do a bit of research, Jaguar Land Rover did a 50/50 partnership with Chery (the Chinese company that owns Jaecoo) a few years back, to build Range Rover products for the Chinese market. So, despite everyone knowing that China are the Kings of Copying, JLR basically gave them the blueprints and saved them the reverse-engineering time! Talk about cutting your own throat.
         
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        • waterbut

          waterbut Gardener

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          Trump is only doing what the EEC was set up for - to protect internal business from cheap imports.
           
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          • KT53

            KT53 Total Gardener

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            @CanadianLori To be fair to Carney, a Government does govern. That doesn't make a Prime Minister a Governor. Our Prime Minister claims to govern, but many if not most would question whether that is actually happening.
             
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            • ViewAhead

              ViewAhead Total Gardener

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              But US shareholders have benefitted hugely from "cheap imports". Apple makes its phones in China because this increases its profits, which in turn benefits investors.

              Re not buying tat, @Fat Controller, I meant non-essential goods rather than cars. Stroll round any Home Bargains or The Range stores and the stuff on sale makes you think "Why, just why would someone buy that?" Plastic Easter bunnies a metre tall, plastic ivy on plastic trellis, and so on. :scratch: Now, I have nothing against plastic. We need it for all sorts of useful things ... and I accept usefulness is in the eyes of the beholder, but I think we have been brainwashed into acquisition as a way of existing because it makes money for the wealthy. And, yes, I understand there are a lot of jobs created in the retail sector, but many are low paid with insecure contracts.
               
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              • Ergates

                Ergates Enthusiastic amateur

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                Trump has said on several occasions that his tariffs will replace income tax, so no one will have to pay tax. Great idea! Except that the cost of the USA imports is currently around the same amount as the income tax collected. So the tariffs will have to be at least 100% and more to replace the income tax. And that assumes that consumers will be happy and able to buy that amount of imports at the inflated prices. And the burden of the tariffs will fall equally on the poorest in society, while the rich get richer and contribute less than if they were taxed.
                What could have been done was to announce that tariffs would be introduced within a reasonable time frame, giving the USA time to reset its manufacturing industries, and for foreign investors to set up factories there. But of course that won’t help him with the constraint of a four year term. And the ridiculous volatility that he has demonstrated won’t be attracting much foreign investment.
                 
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                • ViewAhead

                  ViewAhead Total Gardener

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                  No income tax is an extremely bad development for 95% of the population ... and an absolutely wonderful one for the other 5%. And, very unfortunately, it is those 5% that have all the power and make up all the rules.
                   
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                  • redstar

                    redstar Total Gardener

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                    There is an old saying I ran across many years ago, There is nothing new under the sun. Yep, ideas / actions do repeat themselves overtime, why history is so important.
                     
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                    • Obelix-Vendée

                      Obelix-Vendée Total Gardener

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                      What I was saying @redstar is that there are sane, intelligent, forward thinking, constructive and productive ways of improving family life, education, economic growth, social security (by which I mean personal safety, legal safeguards, health care) and then there is Trump's way which is just plain destructive and mean.
                       
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                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                        In fairness though - have a look in antique shops and boot sales etc and look at some of the stuff folks bought years back.. quite often you'd ask yourself "why on earth would they"
                         
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                        • ViewAhead

                          ViewAhead Total Gardener

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                          True, @Fat Controller! :biggrin: People just love to buy stuff, I guess, though I would be willing to bet metre high plastic bunnies will not feature in the next century's equivalent of an antique shop.
                           
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                          • Tidemark

                            Tidemark Total Gardener

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                            Gonks.
                             
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                            • Tidemark

                              Tidemark Total Gardener

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                              The man really has no idea about dignity and respect, does he?
                              IMG_6242.jpeg
                               
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                              • Fat Controller

                                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                                Bless you

                                :hands Tidemark a tissue:
                                 
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