Whaaattt?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Tidemark, Aug 17, 2024.

  1. ViewAhead

    ViewAhead Total Gardener

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    Lots of good ideas there, @Fat Controller. 20k would be a reasonable starting point, though I think 50% on anything above is steep. I like 25% as it seems fair to me that someone should keep 3/4 of what they make.

    I fully agree with "trade here, pay here". :blue thumb: Tax havens and offshoring have damaged societies across the world.
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      Agree - if you tax wealth unfairly, then folks will either not bother or leave. Same applies to tying people and businesses up in acres of red tape/taxes/fines etc. It is abundantly clear that recent governments haven't a clue about the Laffer curve, that is for sure.
       
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      • ViewAhead

        ViewAhead Total Gardener

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        Sadly, I agree. A constant throughout much of history has been rule by the wealthy for the wealthy. They have an iron-fisted grip on things.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        How much of your income currently goes on tax? All that 50% is doing is slamming them all into one heap so you get rid of the cost of collecting them and removing the dishonesty in the amounts they are currently collecting. Maybe 45% would make more sense, but it would have to be somewhere around that.

        If you earn £50k, at 50% then you pay tax on £30k, so you pay £15k tax.

        Council tax is £2k for a start, so that leaves £13k adrift from VAT, fuel duty, IPT and so on.

        That leaves you £35k after tax which I'd wager is more than someone on £50k currently has... Plus, with everyone on a minimum of £20k, especially pensioners, think how much more money would be slushing around in the economy, especially if VAT is 10%.
         
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        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          You agree but for different reasons.:biggrin:

          I've never had a problem with wealthy people as long as they spend it.:smile:
          If you drag everyone down to a point where they just get taxed to oblivion they will just leave, they have the money to be mobile and will use it.
           
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          • Fat Controller

            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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            Either way, it is not a council thing. That is what is killing council budgets currently.. or at least that, plus debt interest is.

            I'd also ban councils from owning, purchasing or building any property that is not for council or public use, or housing in their area. A lot of councils have accrued a lot of debt (and therefore interest payments) on property not in their area.
             
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            • ViewAhead

              ViewAhead Total Gardener

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              I don't want to drag everyone down. I have no problem with reasonable wealth (say up to about £100 million). It is the way things are structured to allow a few to take so much out of society that services collapse for everyone else that I have issue with. It is private jets hopping about when pensioners have no heating. It is some people owning properties they don't even visit that just sit empty while others have no home to rent, never mind buy.

              My proposals don't have a wealth tax. I'm not suggesting a redistribution of income by taking what the wealthy already have. I'm just saying a tax system that cannot be dodged would be better for society.
               
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              • Songbird

                Songbird Super Gardener

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                • JennyJB

                  JennyJB Total Gardener

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                  I never heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

                  "Threads" is by far the scariest film I've ever seen. I was a teenager in Sheffield at the time so lots of locations that I knew well, including a block of flats where some friends lived blowing up (special effects, but still).
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    @Songbird But what about your state pension?
                    My private pension will never go up.
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      Tax dodging has always gone on and although I think your idea is good, its unrealistic, so once you make 100million you are forced to give anything above away?
                      To who?

                      Its a fantasy world that wouldn't work, let alone one country doing it on their own.
                       
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                      • Obelix-Vendée

                        Obelix-Vendée Total Gardener

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                        Just to lighten things up a bit:

                        Canada wall.jpg
                         
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                        • ViewAhead

                          ViewAhead Total Gardener

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                          £100 million is the point beyond which I believe wealth is excessive, but I am not suggesting any sort of wealth tax. I would severely limit its use on things that harm the planet for everyone though, eg private jet flights, luxury spas in areas where locals have stringent water restrictions, etc.

                          I don't think a simpler tax system would be impossible to introduce or manage. The problem is politicians don't want to do it as the complexity currently in operation is what allows so much tax avoidance by their chums and backers. :)
                           
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                          • pete

                            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                            I agree the tax system needs to be much simpler, even if only cuts down on the amount of people required to run it.
                             
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                            • Fat Controller

                              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                              I sort of agree... so the situation where we've got celebs and rich folks zipping about in private jets, yachts and Bentley's or shooting off to the edge of space and back for giggles whilst you and I are getting clobbered for daring to run our petrol car to get to work, is perverse to say the least. However, surely the biggest issue there is the utter nonsense that we are being fed (and believing) which in reality is only a way for more generation of wealth by those rich folks?

                              We saw it through the pandemic - many folks knew they were being lied to.. could see that the data or information they were being given was utter tripe, could see that the rules being imposed upon them were also utter tripe, and yet they still went along with it because those folks 'above us' were saying it...

                              My concern with curtailing all of that sort of thing, however, is that without someone with deep pockets and a slightly mad mind, there is a lot of technology we may not have or ever see. Things as simple as memory foam that we all use in beds, shoes, slippers and so on -- that started life in a NASA lab. Without heavy investment in space travel/exploration, that technology wouldn't have been needed. Sure, the US government bankrolled the space program back in the 70's, but not so much now - - that is why it is taking the likes of Elon Musk to pay for the research that ends up with rockets that can return home and park up somewhere.

                              Limit that sort of madness and research and you limit the possibilities of tech and advancements that fall out of it and eventually make their way into our homes.
                               
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