A spade, is a spade, is a spade

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by ARMANDII, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the info, Ziggy:thumbsup: Like I've said before, you don't half "educafie" me:happydance:
    I actually used the old hoe today taking out some weeds under the Acer, even though I've got 2 other more modern ones, I still prefer the old one.
    That phosphor bronze sounds as tough as some of the girls I used to go out with when I was a youth:heehee:
    That's a good idea, Clueless, about looking for old tools, (I'm one}, as I'm actually going to a Car Boot sale on Sunday. You never know, I might find something:thumbsup:
     
  2. Chopper

    Chopper Do I really look like a people person?

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    Armandii

    There are numerous grades of stainless steel, used for many different applications. For example 413L is used in sheet form to make catering equipment. 416l is used to make marine equipment. Anything labelled as stainless steel should NOT be magnetic. It should not rust either. I use stainless steel 416L tubing to make exhaust pipes for the bikes and 413L to make panels and brackets. Both are very hard but can be brittle if not treated properly. Stainless steel can be MIG or TIG welded, I do both. You can also mirror polish stainless steel. I use st/steel rod and hexagon bar to make nuts, bolts and shafts. You have to turn it slower than alloys as it generates terrific heat when cutting on the lathe.

    If you bought a stainless steelspade for £27, I can almost guarantee it was not made in the UK and it was not made from a high grade stainless steel. Sounds to me like the metal has been overheated and not been allowed to cool properly. If you quench stainless from red hot to cold in a water bath, the steel becomes brittle and often blues.

    I would take your spade back and demand a refund or replacement. If they refuse, hit them with the shovel. Good lcuk.

    Chopper
     
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    • Chopper

      Chopper Do I really look like a people person?

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      Drop it in to me Ziggy. Worst comes to the worst I have a screw press that will get them out.

      Chopper.
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Thanks for the info, Chopper. It's amazing how much I've learnt since I've come on Gardeners Corner and just how little I know of things.::dunno: The practical skills and knowledge people have makes what skills and knowledge I have acquired seem very small indeed:scratch:, so I take my hat off to them, and include you in the Salutation, Chopper.:thumbsup:

      There's a guy over in Ireland who's employed by the National Trust to hand make spades and I think each spade is about £80. I don't know if there is any one in the UK who hand crafts spades.:scratch:

      I wasn't under the illusion that the spade was British made when I bought it, as very little is these day, but for £27 I did expect to get some quality, Chopper. When you look at the range of spades on offer most of them are around £14 with plastic shafts etc, and for less you can get tin ones.:mad

      I will take the split spade back tomorrow and get a refund or swap for a better spade, but that one seemed to be top of the range on offer. I've also got interested in the making of spades and will do a bit of research to see what's available.

      Due to one split spade I've certainly profited by learning a lot about things!:heehee:
       
    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      Sadly, our strange laws allow manufacturers to claim that something was made in Britain, when in fact it isn't really.

      Made in Britain, British, or any other indication of Britishness on a product often simply means it went through the last stages of production in Britain.

      That means that the components might have been mass produced on the cheap in china or india, partly assembled over there, and then ship here for final assembly, packing and shipping, and it can still be called British.

      There are a few exceptions due to old laws pushed through by the old guilds of masons. For example, if something is makes any reference to Sheffield and steel, then it has to have been made in Sheffield using steel produced here in the Britain and finished in Sheffield. There are a few other exceptions too, but I can't remember them. I just remember reading some info I was given a few years ago when I set up my own business. The advice was largely about legal names for businesses but also listed the quirky little laws that didn't quite fit into the main legislation.
       
    • HarryS

      HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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      Armandii , I use a stainless steel spade and fork I bought from B n Q . They have a yellow plastic handle with a rubber shock absorber near the blade. I was lifting some shrubs this week and if you overload the spade the rubber just bends. They are really good quality tools.
      The best garden tool I have is my yard brush . It is over 30 years old now , and it has only had 8 new heads and 5 new handles :D
       
    • Fidgetsmum

      Fidgetsmum Total Gardener

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      Armandii, d'you mean to tell me that you actually bought something where they didn't try to persuade you to 'take advantage' of an extended warranty!

      Mind you, I'm always slightly sceptical when they do that and am apt to reply, 'Why? Do you have so little faith in your product that you don't expect it to last?'
       
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      Dai is correct :thumbsup:. In England and Wales it is 6 years. In Scotland it is 5 years.

      Remember that if they try to fob you off with saying they will refer it to the manufacturer they are incorrect. It is the retailer that is responsible for faulty goods. As it is more than six months old it is your responsibility to show that it was faulty. They also need to respond in a timely fashion.

      They may accuse you of misuse. You need to be prepared to argue about that and, if necessary, point out that you will be happy to have it tested by a metalurgist and shall subsequently charge them for the cost if he shows that it was faulty. At this sort of stage in an argument I play the 'little old weak pensioner card'. I haven't got the strength to break something metal so the metal has to be at fault. :heehee:

      Don't forget to say that you have been advised about your rights under the Sale of Goods Act as amended by the Sale of Goods and services Acts 1982 and 1994 and the The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. :thumbsup:
       
    • Jungle Jane

      Jungle Jane Starved Of Technicolor

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      I would never buy a brand new spade. They don't make spades and forks as good as they use to, just like woodworking tools really.

      I would recommend to anyone, buy a good vintage spade it will last a lot longer than a so called quality tool you can buy from spear and jacksons nowadays.
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Hi guys, well I've been back to Wyvale's and was surprised by the result. I took the spade with the split blade back and told them I'd bought it from them 2 years ago. The two girl assistants took a look, decided that it was beyond them and called the Manager. I was then expecting the usual excuses and fob off.:cry3:

      When the Manager turned up She was very good and offered a refund straight away or a replacement. Then one of the assistants said a replacement was no good as I'd been in yesterday and bought a new spade to replace the busted one. So there was a bit of a conflab and the Manager said that because the spade was at the top of their range she would give me a refund for the broken spade and my money back for the new spade:thumbsup: I wasn't going to argue with that:yahoo::happydance: So, all in all, I don't think I did badly out of the situation. :sunny:

      I try to buy a quality tool for whatever I'm doing and especially with gardening as they can take the pain and hard work out of a job. I really did think I was buying a quality stainless steel bladed spade, but Ziggy, Chopper have shone the light on what you're actually getting under that description:scratch:

      I've got to say, Shiney, that the attitude of the Manager and the assistants was really good, especially when you take into consideration that I didn't have the receipt for the busted spade. Thank you the info and support.:thumbsup:

      Daitheplant, I took your information with me when I went to Wyvale but as you can see I didn't have to resort to quoting it. It was something I didn't know, more education:DOH:, and as usual you were spot on with the info. Thanks for the support and info.

      I did look at the B & Q spades, Harry, but for some reason, no particular one, I didn't buy one. Maybe I should have:cry3::scratch: But like Ziggy and Chopper have pointed out a stainless steel bladed spade, isn't what it appears to be:DOH:

      When buying, Fidgetmum, I tend to go straight to where whatever I want is and then straight out again [after paying:sunny:], And unfortunately, there was no Special Offers on at the time anyway:DOH:

      Thanks again for the advice and support, Guys.:thumbsup::hapfeet::happydance:
       
    • PeterS

      PeterS Total Gardener

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      Armandii - great to hear you had success.

      I bought a stainless steel spade (Wilkinson - I think) some time ago. And it was rubbish. It used to flex like a cheap tin tray. Then one day the steel part where the handle went in sheared away from the blade of the spade, effectively leaving a hole in the blade. I certainly wouldn't buy another stainless steel one. What's the point. Stainless steel doesn't rust - so what, its very hard - so what, but its brittle and that is a serious disadvantage.

      As I was in the middle of of job of digging an area of clay that hadn't been dug for 30 years, I borrowed a post hole spade from my neighbour. Now that was brilliant. The blade was much narrower and was very curved, both of which made it infinetely stronger than a normal spade.

      I have since bought a cheap steel spade and am very pleased with it.
       
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      Great result, ARMANDII :yess:

      Excellent customer relations Wyvale :dbgrtmb:
       
    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      Armandii, top result. You can't say fairer than that:dbgrtmb:

      My current spade is by Wilkson Sword. Stainless steel with wooden shaft. Its the only spade I've bought that cost more than a tenner (it was nearly 30 quid), and its the first spade I've owned that has lasted more than a year before bending or snapping, and is still as good as new despite enduring some repeated and serious back breaking effort. It's pleasant to use too. That's not just my opinion. When I take it up to work on my land, I often have my dad and a mate with me, both of whom are far more experienced at this gardening lark than me, and there is always a fight over my good spade. My mate, who has worked for years as a general labourer in a landscaping squad, tells me my spade is better than the rubbish he works with at work.

      All that said, I have noticed recently that it doesn't feel quite as solid as it used to, even though it still looks mint. Its still a good spade though, it could just be getting tired, or it could be that the novelty of newness is wearing off for me so I'm starting to see it for what it is.
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Just as a matter of interest, the new spade I've got now has a metal brand label on the shaft say "Joseph Bentley, Traditional Spade Makers" Has anyone heard of them:scratch:
       
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