Sheds

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    Interestingly, the base in that video is virtually the same as the base I have except I have used the DPC where he has used the other stuff. I also now have expanding foam, silicone and all sorts around the inside as well mind you.

    And it is also interesting to hear that others are reporting leaks with them too - makes me feel a wee bit better.

    Thanks @pete - your advice makes complete sense, and thanks also to everyone else for your advice too, as it is all helping. @ricky101 - I have another indentical lid in the greenhouse just a wee tad downstream, so figured that I would be able to get at any blockages from that one. If (when) I replace this shed, I will factor that lid in a bit more sensibly the next time though - not quite sure how, but I will.
     
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    • ricky101

      ricky101 Super Gardener

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      Hey FC,

      Think you slipped up on your recent Mod reply to LaurenBlue, you should have got a new shed freebie before banning them ! :biggrin:
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Been a hive of activity around here today (complete with a lot of fire and smoke!) - greenhouse emptied and tidied up, then the shed was decanted out into the greenhouse (so the greenhouse is now full), with a lot of stuff heading off to the dump.

        A lot of stuff that was in the shed has been destroyed by the damp - and I mean a LOT - so pee'd off.

        So, with the shed empty, the full extent of the damage can be revealed....

        1.jpeg

        At the front, you can see a sheet of ply that was put in a few years back to give a bit of reinforcement at the doors

        2.jpeg

        3.jpeg

        4.jpeg

        5.jpeg
        This one shows the area where my foot had gone through - it springs back up, so doesn't look as bad in the pics as it does in the flesh:
        6.jpeg

        7.jpeg

        8.jpeg
        Most of this was broken out by hand - the 4x2 bearers underneath are also shot - they are like sponges, you press on them and you can see the water coming up.
        9.jpeg
        And it is not just at the area by the door - this is the left hand side of the shed - the one that had been 'sealed' with the special paint. Clearly didn't seal it.
        10.jpeg

        I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that it is completely knackered. Spending any money on this would be complete insanity??
         
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        • ricky101

          ricky101 Super Gardener

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          Hi FC,

          Can see your frustration, though the metalwork of the shed looks in good condition, no rust etc.

          From that video I posted earlier of those shed bases, notice that the four corners of his frame are resting on some raised blocks so creating an air flow underneath.

          Is yours like that or was the entire frame resting on the flags which would really hold any water in ?

          Must confess I think I would try and do a new base for it , up on blocks and with extra sealing around the base edges, though think you have probably had enough of it !

          Think you could at least get a few quid back by selling it on gumtree etc, letting the buyer dismantle to save you the time and effort.

          Bet you are ready for a cuppa and a hot bath!
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            I can't get a good look at the bottom of the sides, but if a new base could be made that is about an inch or so smaller, all round, than the dimensions of the bottom rails on the shed, and this would still support the shed, I think the problems could be solved, even without sealants or any such things.

            The idea is that any water running down the sides then drips off rather than being directed under the metal sides, as it is if the base is bigger than the shed.

            Its not easy to explain, but water does strange things and actually gets "sucked" through horizontal surfaces, "capillary attraction", it needs to be allowed to drip off the metal base, sides.
            Often you get a drip groove to make this happen and stop water running back under.

            Google Cill sections, in timber or PVC, all rely on an overhang and some kind of "drip", low point or groove, in the section.

            I've just written all this and had another look, to be honest, unless the the sides are part of the base rail, it probably wont work.:scratch:
             
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            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              Trouble is @ricky101 - even assuming that I could separate the body of the shed from the base without it twisting/distorting, the cost of the timber etc to make the base (including delivery) would be in the region of £300. I have zero knowledge as to whether the roof still leaks or not (I did daub some sealant on a few of the screws on the roof as it was leaking at one stage), so spending that sort of dough on this without the certainty that it would work is just not happening, especially as that cost would all have to be put onto a credit card.

              Besides, the problem is not airflow underneath - it is purely the water hitting the base at the bottom then soaking in - and yes, you are right, I have had a gutful of it. I would not sell the shed to anyone, as I could not give any sort of assurance that it was not going to leak. There is a fellow at work who says that he has a concrete base that he could screw it down to, and he has been told that it is up to him if it leaks etc, but other than that......

              It also has to be borne in mind that I am not doing this myself - I had two people helping today, one of whom is coming back tomorrow to help do dump runs, so I cannot go wasting people's weekends indefinitely. My position means that I can merely contribute as much as I can.

              My heart is telling me to get the shed down in the next weekend or so - even no shed is better than this.
               
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              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                The base rail is an L-shaped affair, an inch on each leg at the most - the walls then screw into it, and are tensioned by bars in the middle of the walls and the top rails. When the walls are screwed on, you can actually see light coming in where the wall meets the base rail.
                 
              • Fat Controller

                Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                @pete - I got that a bit wrong - it is a box section without a bottom, and then the equivalent of what would have been the bottom then sticks out (see the red shape in the diagram)

                shedconstruction.png
                8b.jpg
                 
              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                Right so assuming the joints in the base rail have silicone in them when assembled? ie. at the corners, it might work.
                But basically, as I said once before, its a shed, nothing more, will always be prone to damp as its not designed to be completely weather proof, especially in our damp climate, where often even condensation is a problem on anything metal etc..

                If you are looking for somewhere to put your gardening gear then you could make it better perhaps, but if you want storage space for household items, its probably not going to work IMO.
                 
              • ricky101

                ricky101 Super Gardener

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                Well in my book that bottom rail should be shaped something like this, preferably with that down angle .
                Its more or less what that guy in the video achieved with the damp proof membrane.

                From a different tac, the brick wall behind the shed, is that yours or the neighbours ?
                Would make it easy to build or place a lean to against it, either brick and timber built or a purchased shed ...



                001410.jpg
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  Yes, that would be a more sensible design @ricky101 but it appears that Yardbas*ard Yardmaster did not do anything that would be sensible.

                  The wall behind is my neighbours house - and bear in mind I rent, so anything I do quite literally has to sit on top of the patio.
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    Update - we did the dump runs, and cleared around the shed - looking at things closer, it was not in good nick at all, so we decided that it was time to dismantle it before it dismantled itself. It came down quite rapidly, and then the full horror was revealed.....

                    20190217_141612.jpg

                    20190217_141620.jpg
                    Any thoughts of salvaging any of the old shed have evaporated.

                    I am fairly glum if truth be told - there is clearly a lot of work ahead to level the ground up (how far do I go with that given it is not my ground as such??), and am now faced with a greenhouse that is stacked with tools and stuff that needs to be dry stored (and even the greenhouse isn't properly dry, if you know what I mean).
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      How long has that been there?
                      The use of OSB for sheds is overdone, the stuff is rubbish, but it doesn't look like any free airflow under the floor was allowed for.
                       
                    • ricky101

                      ricky101 Super Gardener

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                      Don't think I would even look at trying the level the flags , being as they are not yours plus flags always settle when they have been re-leveled.

                      Think the best way would be use blocks and cement or even treated wooden blocks to produce a level area to place some heavy runners on ready for your new shed.
                      That would keep the sheds frame off the ground and allow the air to get under, the only catch would be a small step up, though again a bit of concrete to create an entry slope would ease that problem.

                      eg001411.jpg001412.jpg
                       
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                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller Cuddly 'NEW SHED' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                        @pete - just over four years. There was an air gap underneath it, but admittedly not much of one. I used OSB at the time basically because I didn't know any better - - won't use the stuff for anything again though, it seems to have behaved like a sponge.

                        @ricky101 - I can't use concrete, as I have to sit whatever I do (if anything) on top of the patio; I will have to do something with the flags too, firstly because I have a responsibilty to my landlord, and secondly because it looks bloomin' awful, and I have no idea how long it will sit like that. If I do something, I will be looking at getting it up off the ground on blocks or something.
                         
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